Tuesday, 5 May 2015

This Railo v Lucee thing: a well-balanced reaction (from someone else)

G'day:
I had a response to make to a comment this evening, but Ron Stewart beat me to it, saying pretty much what I'd've said, except better. And more politely. I wasn't going to bother being polite.

'ere' 't'is.

It's in response to Dom's comment, which was a slightly befuddling reaction to my article this morning, "Questions for Railo". Dom's post seemed to take offence at the fact I delivered inconvenient information, and I have an opinion which is contrary to the zeitgeist. And that I have derided some of the less coherent reaction I've been seeing. Which is odd, cos he's read this blog before.

Anyway, I was gonna reply after work, but I've been trumped by Ron who's written what I would have said (like I said above).


@Dominic: I'm not one for putting words in Adam's mouth (seems dangerous to me) but I too was a little surprised by how some people responded either on Twitter or in the comments on the Google Groups posting in a manner that either

(a) seemed (to me) to lose sight of what I thought was the primary basis for the disagreement between 4FTI and the people behind the Lucee project: some sort of contractual agreement regarding IP rights, or

(b) automatically assumed that the entity behind the post was automatically wrong, without grounds for their position, some sort of bad guy, or out specifically to harm the Lucee project (they may be any or all of those things... or they may not be).

There's a great deal about all of this that we on the outside simply don't know at this point in time, and to automatically assume that the entity behind the post on the Railo blog has no basis for their position and/or for addressing what they perceive as a grievance or breach of contract through litigation is probably unwise. The claims made by the entity behind the blog post on the Railo site may be without merit... or they may not be. We just don't know.

As I posted on Twitter, the underlying disagreement between the two sides in this case is troubling to me (I used the word "disturbing" in my tweet) because it, at best, will likely be a distraction for continued development of the Lucee project until it is resolved. I also noted that that the cynical part of me was sort of expecting this given the protracted silence from the Railo side since the Lucee project began... given what we had publically heard about financial backing for and commitment to the long-term future of CFML through Railo, it seemed quite likely to me that the entities backing Railo would be quiet that long if they were trying to figure out what this meant for their investment and their future... maybe I was reading too much into the silence. I think we now have some idea of where they stand.

I saw some of the reaction as a surprising rush to judgment, given how little any of us know about the circumstances behind the principals leaving the Railo side, any contractual agreements they may or may not have had with the Railo side, conversations that may have occurred between the two sides since they left the Railo project as they two sides may or may not have attempted to come to some sort of agreement on points of dispute. I don't think we know enough at this point to start talking about who's right, wrong, good, bad, or anything else in this case.

Does all of this help the CFML community? Or Railo? Or Lucee? No, almost certainly not... but neither does our jumping to conclusions about "right" and "wrong" or "good" and "bad" in situations where we aren't currently--and may never be--privy to all of the relevant facts.

I think Adam is/was doing the same thing to the CFML community that he often does with the vendors: taking them to task for what he sees as questionable reasoning. I don't see his position as "pandering" or even an extreme case of playing the devil's advocate. But that's just my perspective...

I'm curious about the answers to some of the questions he's posed here (particularly the forward-looking ones), and to see how this plays out.


Questions for Railo

G'day:
Well: what a flurry of hysteria we had yesterday, eh? (if you missed it: "Railo speaks at long last", then go to the Lucee Google Group or Twitter for more reaction). I can't say I was particularly impressed with some quarters of the CFML community with their froth-based conspiracy theorisation, but I think this reflected mostly on themselves more than anyone else. I'm also surprised at the road from Palm Sunday-esque adulation to shrieks of "Crucify Them!" Railo have apparently transgressed over the last few months. We've definitely split from the Judean People's Front to create the People's Front of Judea, it seems.

Still... There's some sensible questions to be asked off the back of all this. Some of these come from me, some of them are questions others have asked which seem to have merit (at least to some degree).

Monday, 4 May 2015

Please post a comment on this article

G'day:
I'm having some issues with Disqus, perhaps linked to me changing some email addresses.

Could you pls post a comment on this article? I just wanna see how / when / to where I get the notifications.

Oh, if by the time you see this it already has a few comments... no need to bother.

Update:

Cheers, have fixed the issue now.

Cheers.

--
Adam

Railo speaks at long last

G'day:
I'm going to get this out quickly without any analysis (I've not even finished reading it!), but Railo - yeah Railo, not Lucee - have just posted this on their blog ("A message from the majority shareholder of The Railo Company"). The whole thing warrants reading and digesting, but this is they key section:

What this means for Lucee

Again, we support the spirit and intent of the Lucee initiative, although we fail to see the advantage of another CFML platform. However, the use and development of Railo to release what is now being “packaged” as Lucee 5 was not authorized by TRC and, therefore, remains the property of TRC.

For this reason, we are compelled to provide notice that any use of Railo by Lucee or by its membership may constitute an unlawful infringement of TRC’s intellectual property rights. We strongly urge you or your customers to request that Lucee and its founders warrant that nothing contained in any Lucee release is subject to claims from third parties including TRC and that all IP is free and clear to Lucee. We are confident that no such warranty can or will be provided.

All of these internal issues will take time to sort out and we will try to keep you updated throughout.

Hmmm.

My initial reaction is that one would be foolhardy to run with Lucee whilst there's clearly some issues to "iron out". It might end up just being an agreement being made with TRC to allow them to distribute Lucee. Or it might mean "Lucee" is not allowed to exist, legally. I think this is up in the air at the moment.

That said: I'm no lawyer, so what do I know.

Update:

Alex has pointed this out:

This isn’t Railo speaking this is another TRC shareholder and the article title should reflect that, [...] they are a majority shareholder [...] TRC's other shareholders don’t agree with the position being taken?
(full context is in his comment below. I have edited that down, and this expresses his intent, but not his exact wording).

My reaction to that is this:

It's the Railo blog and they're talking about Railo stuff, so that's "Railo speaks..." in my books. I'm not that fussed by who owns what shares, and realistically I think this messaging *is* the official word re Railo whether all share holders agree or not.

TBH, I'm not sure this hair-splitting is helpful or meaningful, but I've now had this conversation three times with various people, so I figured I should get my reaction front and centre.

One thing I do know... this squabbling between Railo & Lucee is not helpful to anyone in the CFML community (except perhaps Adobe). And I say that in a non-partisan way. I don't know enough to know who's the right or the wrong party in any of this.

I think the body left worst off is the CFML community though.

Update, after some thought:

These are my initial thoughts, as posted in a comment on Railo's blog article:

Very interesting news! Not entirely helpful from the perspective of the continuity of the CFML community, but interesting nevertheless.

What would be *best* is if you @ TRC and those @ LAS could swallow their egos and their differences, ditch Lucee, and go back to just doing Railo.

I'm fairly certain that won't happen though :-/

Best of luck, and I will definitely be "watching this space"!


What are your own thoughts on any of this?

--
Adam

Sunday, 3 May 2015

Change of persona

G'day:
Just a note... if you have my dac.cfml GMail address on file... get rid. I'm discontinuing it.

Friday, 1 May 2015

Clarification / retraction re Lucee community participation

G'day:
I mean to post this y/day, but forgot.

Brad pointed out I've been talking porkies about Lucee's popularity / community size:

Also, you and Sean are spreading what I believe are misleading "facts" about the "fragmentation" of the community. Firstly, the total number of members is no indication of the number of active members. Any list will accumulate old accounts after a few years, but that doesn't make it more active. Adam you said there is "so little traffic on the [google group]". Let's take a look at the stats.


https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!aboutgroup/railo
https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!aboutgroup/lucee

Before the Lucee announcement, the Railo list averaged 496 posts a month on 87 topics. Since its inception, the Lucee list has averaged 1,137 posts a month on 83 topics! That's pretty much the exact same number of topics and over TWICE the posting traffic.

"M"? M!

G'day:
OK, enough fo the single letter blog titles with no bodies (ref: "M"). What was that all about? Well AndyK correctly guessed this morning:

My colleague Brian got the literal meaning,but not the implication.

M... 1000. Plus indeed the dual meaning "milestone" was in there too.

So, yeah, that was the 1000th "article" on this blog. Initially I was gonna do a "well let's reflect on that", like I did with "Bad Request" and "500: to put things in perspective", but then it occurred to me that's really a bit hubristic. In reality what I'd achieved is engaged in one of my hobbies 1000 times over the course of a coupla years (1023 days to clarify Andy's frequency estimate). This is not an achievement, it's just me passing the time doing what I like.

But it was at least worth an odd article title with no discernible content. Again.

Well done Andy... I'll get you a beer when I see you.

Andy also spared you tomorrow's article title which was gonna be "k", with a body of "10000000000". I'll have to think of something else to write now.

--
Adam